Zoom Integration in a Multi-cam Live Stream

We’re about to stream an event live and have been asked to integrate someone on a Zoom call into the mix. We have multiple cameras going into our a/v switcher (Roland V-8HD) via HDMI each with their own embedded audio and we planned on running a Zoom video feed from a computer to one of the inputs on the switcher via HDMI to cut to someone talking from a zoom meeting and include that video and audio in our switch. Then we planned send the RCA OUTPUT of our switcher to the DJ or audio mixer / speaker sound system of the venue to the people can hear the person talking.

I might test this this week but figured this would work…until…

We were told that this setup “might” cause feedback issues. We haven’t tested it yet, but is there something I don’t know about (yet) that I need to do or a piece of gear I need to buy in order to make this happen without whatever feedback issues this person was talking about? Or should we be good to go?

You’ll need to make sure that you aren’t sending the audio from the Zoom feed back into the Zoom computer. If the Zoom guest is seeing the video and audio from just the computer’s webcam, it will probably be fine. But if they are viewing the program out that includes their own video they’re sending, that’s like the feedback they were mentioning.

If that’s what you’re trying to do, you need to send a “mix minus” of the audio back into the computer rather than the program audio. That way they hear the main mix except themselves. Most audio mixers can do this either with a dedicated “mix minus” feature or by using the aux send routing on the mixer.

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Thanks Aaron. Makes sense and I had a feeling it had to do with mix minus. So just to be sure…where would the audio mixer fit in the workflow? Again, i’m running the audio (and video) of the cameras to the switcher along with the Zoom call. I planned to have the zoom call muted on the switcher until it’s time for the person on the Zoom call to speak. So yes, I suppose he would then be hearing his/her own voice. I have a Mackie Profx8v2 mixer which I believe has mix-minus capability. Though I’ve never used it or know how to.

On top of all that I’d be sending the audio out of just the person to the speakers at the venue so those there can hear them talk. I feel like I need to draw it out on paper. HA! Your help with this is GREATLY appreciated.

I should note that my A/V switcher also has an aux output for sending a different a/v mix. The mackie audio mixer also has aux send (plus it has usb). But I guess I don’t know where in the workflow these things fit and how.

It definitely gets a bit complicated! I know @john recently did exactly this where he brought Doug Johnson in via Zoom and had to mix the audio externally. Maybe he can share a diagram of this?

That would be awesome to get john’s help here. I see how it would work with an audio only podcast or something like that, but I’m just having trouble at the moment figuring out things when video is added as well as the need to have the people at the venue hear the person on Zoom live. Diagrams welcome! :slight_smile:

More than happy to help explain how I made it happen. In fact, here is a little video all about it!

(P.S. if you are intrigued by this video, check out: https://heretorecord.com/gear/ - Work in progress!)

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Thank you for this. I helps me in several different ways.

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Hi,
if you haven’t decided on an audio interface + sound mixer yet, I also managed to achieve the task using the Sound Devices MixPre 3-II, which also has routing functions for Mix-Minus. It’s not a cheap device, but would give a portability benefit over the separate audio interface and mixer as described by John.

Here is a video on how it’s done (and there is another one by Curtis Judd on the topic, both explain well.

HTH,

Ozy.

It just so happens that I have a Mixpre 3. Does that have the same function (I can check later today)?

This all seems simple for a podcast or all audio set up. I’m just lost as to where this goes in a video setup where. Again our audio is usually coming in embedded into the video feeds, not a separate xlr mic. And the Zoom call is coming from a computer. So where does the mixpre (or other mix minus capable device) go?

Hi, the MixPre would work as well, main difference is the 32bit float recording which is not relevant for your use case, the routing should be exactly the same (I beliieve).

You would run the Mixpre pretty much as John’s setup from the video, just that it is Audio Interface and mixer in one. It would need a USB connection to the computer you are running Zoom on.

To my mind, there would be two ways to go about connecting this.

You could run the stereo out from the MixPre to your FOH mixer, so the audience can hear the Zoom call audio. This would delegate the mixing of the mics to the MixPre and your FOH mixer would then only be used to adjust the volume or introduce effects to the stereo sum from the Mixpre.

The other way round would probably make more sense as it would give you the opportunity to mix the audio at the FOH mixer, then send the stereo sum from that to the Mixpre to be sent back to your Zoom participant. The stereo out from Mix Pre would then need to be set to only route the Zoom audio (USB) to the stereo out, which would then be sent to a channel on your FOH mixer.

Disclaimer: I have only done this with a live stream only setup, so the above would need validation by a pro (I certainly am not) or you just give it a try. But from what I can see, the myriad routing capabilities of the Mixpre should be enough for your task.

Also check out this thread, I had similar concerns about feedback in a slightly different setup (no Zoom, but need to present B-Roll with Audio to both a streaming and present audience) and there were many good suggestions.

Sorry for the follow-up, it‘s just that I drew a diagram up for me ( as I would like to achieve something similar ) and probably have to qualify my statement a little bit:

I checked out the V8 specs and found out it only has one audio out and one audio in. Also you didn‘t specify what device you are using to create the live stream (Mini Pro?)

What I forgot in my previous calculation is that you need to feed both the stream and the FOH.

In which case, a mixer like John‘s comes in handy to provide multiple audio outs going to the FOH desk AND the streaming encoder. I‘m sure you could bodge it with splitters or a HDMI audio grabber etc, and you could still use your Mixpre as an audio interface, but my suggestion seems to work only for „either or“ rather than both FOH and Streaming at the same time. By the time you have added accessories for the bodge-job, you might as well use an additional mixing desk.

Apologies for my over-eagerness, Mix-Minus is pretty straightforward, but I overlooked the requirement to feed both systems.

Seriously you’re awesome. No need to apologize. I’ll be setting up a full run thru tonight. I’ll try to do the mix minus with my mix pre. We’re streaming using a LiveU Solo HDMI encoder. We have 3 cameras all with embedded lav mic audio. I’ll buy gear if I need to to make it stress free.

The weddings we shoot will have a guest remotely on Zoom on a TV hopefully interacting with the couple (like a dad handing off his daughter but he’s in Taiwan) so that audio would need to be included on the stream and also sent to the DJ’s board/mixer.

My main confusion is where in the line the mixpre mixpre or other audio device capable of doing this fits in the work flow. Everyone is talking about audio coming into our stream via a mic feed but the event audio is usually embedded in cameras. We can also run a line from the DJ’s feed for audio but some of these weddings won’t have a DJ because they’re so small due to covid. I looked at the Zoom L8 mixer and Mackie Profx8v2 mixer as possibilities since both were listed when I googled “mix minus mixer”. This was before you told me about the mixpre. We usually record the DJ feed on the mix pre and then send that audio out wirelessly to one of our 3 cameras just to have a single feed of everything. The other cameras have our lav mics to be used as backup if the DJ’s gear starts having issues.

I’m down to get any interface or mixer or whatever makes it easiest. Budget is not really a factor although I’d prefer to keep it under $1k.

I did own the AMP for a few weeks but returned it because we use a bonded encoder (LiveU solo) and I needed that extra output which it didn’t have at the time. The Roland V8HD does have a separate aux output which they said I can select to do an alternate video mix and it can send out only the HDMI audio or only the RCA audio. But by the time they told me that my head was spinning.

I seek clarity. And you’re helping. Many thanks. Hope that helps fill in the gaps I didn’t post yet.

Hi, thanks for filling in the gaps. I’ll have some time later today to try and draw something up - what you describe is very close to the use case I need to solve as well.

In the meantime, I found this article well-written and helpful:

Audio for Hybrid Events

Right, I have played around a bit and have come up with the following wiring diagram.
Disclaimer: I have not tested this, this is a first draft and I am open to feedback and improvements!

It looks a bit convoluted, but this achieves:

  • Full sound mix available to FOH and Stream
  • A mix-minus to the Zoom participant
  • Re-using an SD MixPre 3 (no need to purchase new audio interface)
  • Using audio coming in over HDMI, (lav mics synced to the individual cameras)

Also, not in the picture are eventual audience video monitors, but it shouldn’t be a problem to feed them from the V8 without extra equipment.

In essence:

The SD Mixpre 3 acts as an audio interface and needs to be configured to send mix-minus back to the Zoom Caller via USB, use the the video as your baseline.

In addition, the stereo out of the MixPre needs to send the caller’s voice only to the Soundboard. I have selected this to be mapped Channel 2 on the soundboard, but you are of course free to choose whatever you want.

The Roland sends the audio from the videos to the soundboard via audio out, this together allows for a “full mix” available in the sound board, which can be sent to the FOH / PA System

The soundboard also sends back the sound of the caller back to the V8, which completes the “mix” in the V8, which can then pump out full mix to the LiveU Solo or whatever encoder.

I haven’t found a simpler way of doing this, but in essence this should work.

One thing that would probably be a bit “fiddly” would be syncing Zoom Video to Audio for the PA, but the MixPre allows to delay the audio a fair bit.

Finally, I am routing caller audio back to the V8 from the sound board, but this may not be necessary, as the audio already is contained in the HDMI stream from the Laptop. If you try this out, let me know which routing bears better results.

As to your choice of sound boards, they should all work, as the mix-minus is essentially done in the MixPre. I am currently eyeing the Presonus Studio Live 16R, which is overkill as far as inputs and outputs are concerned, but it has a cool rackmount form factor which would fit into my 19" rack setup, where my Hyperdeck Mini, and the POE switch lives. That’s personal preference though and the setup could definitely be achieved with a cheaper mixer.

Wow.

Just…wow. I cannot thank you enough. I will be testing this on Monday for sure! We live streamed a wedding from a boat today for all those watching remotely and then I ran a separate audio-only zoom feed back to a computer for those on boats surrounding the boat we were on so they could hear with only a short delay. Went great. Sadly some didn’t get the memo about wearing ear buds or not blasting the audio back at us (which one boat did so we all heard the echo…c’mon man!) Anyway, got another live stream Sunday but the big one with Zoom integration is Tuesday. That leaves me Monday to figure out stuff.

I had to purchase a mixer and went with a Zoom LiveTrak L-8 mixer. I liked what I saw and it has a few aux sends available and built in mix-minus. I’ve got 30 days to decide if its the right one. I needed something since couples are now hiring me to run live sound too and my old mixer had unbalanced jack outputs only and some of these venues have longer (XLR) runs. Anyway, I almost pulled the trigger on the Behringer XR12 or XR16 but I’ve already got an ipad working the music mix and didn’t feel like having another device being in the mix despite the convenience of being able to adjust levels remotely which is cool.

Anyway, I don’t know how you did all those little pics in your diagram but it makes it pretty easy. I’m a bit confused on the soundboard section, but I’ll try to incorporate my Zoom L-8 and make it work.

I was able to actually get it to work in my test setup the other day where I could route a caller’s voice to a PA system without echo, but it required me to route the audio out of the Zoom laptop via the headphone jack and into the V8HD’s RCA Input and then send that audio through the RCA output to the audio mixer/PA. Also the Aux output was set to send RCA audio only, not HDMI. The Roland support guy said:

"On the V-8HD, you can output either the Main audio mix or the AUX audio mix. The AUX mix can be either:

** All 8 HDMI together*
** The RCA inputs*
** Both all HDMI and RCA*

You can then use Audio Follows Video menu to automate Mutes. When Audio Follows is turned on for an HDMI source, it will only pass audio when it is selected as PGM or in a PinP window. You can also link RCA to an HDMI source if that helps your workflow."

I have yet to fully test his AFV advice or linking RCA to an HDMI source but maybe I will. Lots to test come Monday.

Thank so much for your help!

Best of luck and let us know how you got on!

This was created using Lucidchart, it‘s a browser-based tool (like a “Visio” replacement) and it‘s free in the basic version (which I used).

Fingers crossed for Tuesday!

This is brilliant. It solved a similar issue I ran into with a zoom video coming into my Livestream.!

Thanks, @john, and @aaronpk for such solution

Now I’m all excited to know: @ABHA - how did the Tuesday gig work out?

189 people on a single zoom call.

and it actually went well.

figured out how to do it with my gear the day before and had one rehearsal and then we went live. Crazy, but it worked. Almost flawless. I haven’t posted yet because honestly, it’s been a busy week and I haven’t had time to figure out lucid chart yet or any other way to easily diagram how I did it. I still have a few questions and I’m not sure if there’s a better way to do it (probably) with my gear, but it worked. There were people in person walking down the aisle, plus people virtually walking down the aisle, there were 3 readings on zoom sent to the DJ who also happened to be me for this one as well, and there was even a unmute all moment where everyone cheered but it sounded more like a cacophony of noise with one or two loud voices standing out. HA!

Will post again with a chart real soon. Next few days for sure.

Your help was invaluable.

J

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Fantastic! Well done! I probably would have needed two fingers of Scotch after that once it all worked out!