NDI over wifi

Hello !

I’m about to get a PTZ camera with NDI (still hesitating between an HD Panasonic or a 4K Bird Dog), and a NDI decoder for the ATEM mini pro. The thing is that camera will be installed in a concrete ceiling where I can only power it up but sadly cannot plug any ethernet. I’m thinking of adding a small wifi router (like the TL-WR902AC from TP-Link) but the performances don’t look tremendous, I don’t know if that would be enough for 4K, probably ok for HD and NDI HX. What do you think?

Thanks!

In theory this shouldn’t be a problem but as they say ‘your mileage may differ".

The theoretical throughput of the router is an order of magnitude greater than the required throughput of a PTZ using H.265 over TCP/IP, and if your subject is mainly static, in a church for example, then the actual bitrate will be lower than, say, a fast moving sports event.

I’ve attached the throughput of that router and the bitrate of a typical camera. I hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply.

The camera is for shooting surgery procedures and is 3 meters away from the subject then it’s pretty static.

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I can’t remember where I got this from but it’s indicative of bitrate at highest (lots of movement) to average (typical movement) for various frame rates and resolutions. Good luck and if you get the chance it would be nice to hear what your real-life results turn out to be.

I would recommend getting the cheaper HD one and buying a small wireless video transmitter and receiver. Make sure to get a good brand and no cheap ebay crap. Hollyland Mars 300 should be a good option for beginners.

NDI over Wi-Fi is always a little bit tricky and not guaranteed to work continuously. Yes, in theory it should work according to math but there is always a difference when it really comes to stability and reliability.

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many thanks for this advice

But surely he’s going to loose all of the PTZ control if he uses HDMI? The very point of the PTZ camera is the end-to-end control of the camera he gets with and end-to-end TCP/IP connection.

Or have i misunderstood the requirement?

I thought you could use the ptz control anyway in parallel, just not for the main video feed.

Wifi for controlling the camera (onvif right?), hollyland for the video signal. Reading the Amazon comments of that device, really great thanks :+1:

I’m even more confused if youre going to use a wireless router AND a Hoyland because you wrote in your original post that you were constrained by the ceiling. How will these devices be connected to the camera in the ceiling? And if you can connect them why can’t you just run a single 10Gb Ethernet cable? It’s one cable running to the ceiling rather than installing everything that’s required for a wireless router and a hoyland. You’ll need to get to the Hoyland to turn it on, make settings, connect and change batteries so it becomes a point of failure … imagine losing a battery during an operation.

BTW with 10Gb Ethernet You can also run Power over Ethernet at the same time so 1 cable does everything. 300m max of cable or 10km of fibre to an Ethernet switch is all that would be required and there’s no wi-fi in the chain.

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The bandwidth requirements of NDI are much higher than H.264+

Here is NewTek’s short answer on the subject: https://support.newtek.com/hc/en-us/articles/217662708-NDI-Network-Bandwidth

I will probably follow the words of wisdom from @OldManofTheSea and find a way to run an ethernet cable, which I hope won’t be too ugly and visible, but at least efficient and definitely cheap.

BTW with 10Gb Ethernet You can also run Power over Ethernet at the same time so 1 cable does everything. 300m max of cable or 10km of fibre to an Ethernet switch is all that would be required and there’s no wi-fi in the chain.

I thought the 8 pins were mandatory for the connection and a 1 or 10Gb would impeach PoE ?

You wouldn’t run 10Gb to a camera. You’d run 1gb PoE+ edge connection from a 10Gb backbone switch to the camera or if your just building a one-off simple network in order to get the camera to a studio then you’d run a 1Gb switch with 1Gb to the camera and 1Gb to the studio.

The key is that the switch connected to the camera and delivering the power needs to be a PoE+ capable switch to deliver the power required by a typical PTZ camera (unless someone is installing an external PTZ camera with night vision as that requires more power than a normal PoE+ switch can deliver - I know that’s not you’re case I’ve just put this here for reference).

I’ve included a link to a UK site which makes it easy to compare switches. The link is for PoE+ switches.

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/store/poe-switches/8-port-poe-switches/?t=84&sort=1

As for routing the cable I’d suggest stick-on trunking up and over. It’s neat, it’s light (especially for the one cable you need), it’s removable, and you can make it more resilient if you need to by screwing through it.

Hope this helps.

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you can run poe on 1G and 10G links, power is going over the data lines.

I’m aware of the 4-pair PoE++ standard (2019) for 10Gb PoE Ethernet over copper but I’m not aware of any available switches that implement this. Most (if not all) switches implement the 10Gb connection over SPF+ or Copper but without PoE. The PoE++ ports on these switches run at 1Gb.

Could you reference a device that currentl provide a 10Gb PoE, PoE+ or PoE++ connection as I’d be very interested for a project I’m considering? (I am aware of an isolated, non-standardised device that does this specifically for an isolated (non-networked) Sony camera chip but it’s not really a commercial solution).

Thanks in advance Paul

I currently know of this one https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-xg-6poe/

Thanks for that information. It’s very difficult to find and compare features because manufacturers use different terminology. They often state that they support 802.3bt but they only support the full power over 1 Gb links. This one stats 10Gb at full power over all ports so it’s the first I’ve seen.